7 Annoying Things Women Do To Screw Things Up With Men

By KryptoKate

Kryptokate

I have a running group-chat with several of my single female friends, where we daily update each other on our sexual and romantic exploits and share the funny texts, photos, and Tinder exchanges we have with men. It’s a daily source of hilarity and an unvarnished view of the jungle that is modern dating.

It also makes me incredibly annoyed at certain common female behavior. While I love my girls, they all engage in certain conduct with men that drives me insane. In this group, I’m known as the “level-headed” one – the one who’s relatively logical and not as emotional or “girly”. I look feminine but I get told all the time that I think like a dude. This means I get along easily with men and don’t have a lot of problems or drama in my love life. But it also means I sometimes get frustrated with my lady friends when they engage in self-defeating, hypocritical, or just plain irritating behavior with men. As a woman, I don’t like it when my fellow females act in ways that give us all a bad name. So here, without further ado, here is KryptoKate’s list of seven annoying things that women do to screw it up with men:

1. Claiming to want equality while expecting men to pay

This is a giant pet peeve. Look ladies, you have a choice: either you can require that men pay your way and expect men to contribute more financially than you, or you can be equal. You can’t have it both ways. If you want men to pay, that’s fine and it’s your prerogative. But don’t then turn around and claim to be independent or equal to men. This goes for everything where you expect a man to pay all or more than you: dinners, vacations, engagement rings. If he’s paying and you’re not, you’re selling him something. Please be honest with yourself about what that is.

2. Taking constant selfies

A selfie now and then, because you want to capture a really cool event or place you’ve been, or to show something funny, or just because your man wants one, is fine. Taking and posting daily selfies to Instagram/Snapchat/Facebook is not. Men will see it for exactly what it is: a narcissistic bid for attention and compliments. Try aiming the camera at something other than yourself sometime.

3. Chasing men

It’s a law of nature that when an animal is chased, it will run away. This applies to men and women as well. There is no reason, ever, to pursue or continually contact someone who has shown lack of interest. If he doesn’t respond to your texts, don’t keep texting him or calling him. God forbid don’t try to corner him in person to force him to interact with you. If a man is interested in you, he will show it by giving you his attention and time. If he is not, it means he isn’t interested, and pursuing him further is not going to change that. Move on.

4. Acting entitled to monogamous commitment

I do not advocate acting like a doormat or allowing anyone to treat you poorly. You should not put up with a man who is truly treating you with disrespect or thoughtlessly.

However, “treating you with respect” is not the same thing as committing to be monogamous with you. You are not entitled to any man’s commitment, and you are not entitled to monogamy. He might choose to do sleep only with you but he is not required to do so. This is regardless of how much you like him, or how long you’ve been sleeping together, or how much time you spend together or how much you’ve invested in him. If he does not want to be monogamous or make a commitment to you, that is his choice, and it doesn’t make him an asshole, a commitment-phobe, fucked-up, or disrespectful. It just makes him a guy that doesn’t want to be monogamous with you. And you’re perfectly free to decide whether or not to keep seeing him. Do not assume that just because you want something means you’re entitled to it or that you’re justified in demanding it. You can ask, but you can’t demand.

5. Demanding “we need to talk”

First of all, never use that phrase. The only reaction a reasonable person can have to hearing “we need to talk” is dread. It never means anything good. If a man said “we need to talk” to me, I would be trying to find ways to avoid him. It’s a terrible phrase and it’s pushy and demanding as well – I don’t need to do anything, and neither does he.

Second, it’s often both unnecessary and unhelpful to “talk” about everything in a relationship. Most of the time, “talking” does not communicate anything both people don’t already know. Despite the modern-day worship of “communication”, what the person demanding to “talk” is usually doing is trying to negotiate for more power in the relationship. People sense this deep down, even if they don’t realize it consciously, which is why many people dread hearing the phrase “we need to talk.”

It’s also why “talking things out” rarely actually works, other than temporarily, to solve problems, whether the talking occurs in a therapist’s office or over the dinner table. Most relationship issues are rather simple and can be communicated simply without needing a big, long talk: I want you to change X, I want you to stop doing Y, I want you to Z. If someone needs an hour to explain themselves, it’s because they want to frame things in their favor to manipulate the other person, not because it’s actually complicated.

6. Overplaying the sympathy card

You know what I’m talking about ladies. Sympathy is often the first ploy a woman turns to when she’s not getting her way, she wants something, or she’s been caught doing something she shouldn’t. And that’s because it’s often effective. Most people can’t stand to be guilt-tripped and will capitulate to tears. But don’t be the girl who cried wolf.  People will eventually get skeptical and sick of sob stories. People respect accountability, and using victimhood to play on people’s sympathy will eventually erode respect and your credibility.

7. Failing to handle their liquor

I love to drink. I like to get drunk and have wild nights. You can pry my drink of choice out of my cold, dead hands. But I handle my liquor. I do not vomit, slur my words, fall down, start fights, cry, embarrass myself, black out, send embarrassing texts, or do things that I later regret. And I’m damn sick of having to babysit my drunk friends who can’t handle their alcohol! There is nothing more unattractive than a sloppy drunk girl. And making someone babysit your drunk ass is completely rude and unacceptable – now you’re not just ruining your own night, you’re ruining their night too. Learn how to handle alcohol like an adult, or refrain from drinking entirely.

Cheers!

~KryptoKate

Kryptokate

23 comments

  1. Oh my! We disagree on several points. This should be fun…. 😉
    I am in agreement with you that women should not position themselves to chase men. It’s unbecoming and robs men of their natural instinct to hunt and pursue. As far as getting overly drunk, its not something I have much experience with but I think it goes without saying that its not a good thing!
    On playing the sympathy card, I’m a little torn. I wouldn’t say manipulation is the best way to go, but in reality I have seen many men fall for it. I don’t think I personally pull that one but as far as it “working” I would say it probably does and that’s why so many women go that route.
    Selfies, again, I personally don’t take a lot of them but I would have to argue that men DO enjoy it. They are constantly asking for photos and if a pretty women posts a million of them, men will still comment and like every one. I’m not sure men ever get tired of pictures of attractive women!
    “We need to talk” may not be the best phrase for starting a conversation, but I do believe that women need to express their feelings openly with men, from the very beginning. NOT doing so builds hurt and resentment that can fester and later cause drama. I’m a big fan of communication, especially after being married for many years to a man that did NOT communicate well with me. Years of putting on a happy face taught me that it was self destructive to hide my heart from someone. I’d rather get it all out in the open and give him a chance to solve whatever is bothering me. The trick is doing it in a non confrontational, non accusatory way.
    You may not be entitled to monogamy, but you have every right to protect yourself and your own feelings by walking away from a man that is knowingly doing things that hurt you. If his non-monogamy is making you feel bad, in any way, and he’s not doing anything to help or solve that issue when you bring it to him, then you are better off with a man or men who care enough to make you feel good with them. Respect YOURSELF and don’t allow him to walk all over you.
    If you want to be “equal” and “independent” in your dating scenarios, hell, go right ahead and pay all you want. Just realize that you are robbing him of his masculinity in the same way that insisting on opening doors for yourself, or refusing to let him carry heavy packages does. Very masculine men tend to ENJOY the power and control that paying for a woman gives them. By graciously allowing him to pay your way, you are reinforcing that he is “the man” in the relationship. Many men on the internet will whine and complain about having to pay for women, but it is mostly due to resentment towards women who don’t have sex with them and money “wasted” on them. I actually had a man in real life recently admit to me that he felt emasculated when a particular woman insisted on paying her way on all their dates. So much so that he lost sexual attraction to her. I much prefer the dynamic where the man is dominant and I am more submissive, in and out of the bedroom, so for me that includes him paying my way.

  2. Awesome post. I agree with all of it. If ONLY more women saw the world the way you do it would be a much more pleasant place to live.

  3. I liked number 4 the best. That was well said; I don’t think that point could be explained any better. I had been under the impression for some time that a guy treating me well and promising exclusivity should go hand in hand. Then I became confused when I realized someone can still treat you very, very well, but just because they don’t promise exclusivity, does not mean that they are evil. So, this post helps clarify what I had been confused about. With the kind of day I’m having, that was really needed / helpful. It made me feel a lot better.

  4. Very spot on Kate! I’ve seen some of your comments over at BD’s blog and definitely respect your honesty and candor when talking about these topics. If more women thought like you, I’d be a happy guy.

    The drunk girl thing is a good one-I know a girl exactly like this. The sad thing is she’s very attractive and has her life together otherwise. Her crazy drunken behavior constantly scares guys off though

  5. Definitely agree with these, especially #1. If you’ve got the money to pay for the date, why not? Plus, it’s always fun to see the guy’s reaction.

  6. I agree with most of what you said but your wording is odd to me.
    “4. Acting entitled to monogamous commitment- If he does not want to be monogamous or make a commitment to you, that is his choice, and it doesn’t make him an asshole, a commitment-phobe, fucked-up, or disrespectful. It just makes him a guy that doesn’t want to be monogamous with you. And you’re perfectly free to decide whether or not to keep seeing him. Do not assume that just because you want something means you’re entitled to it or that you’re justified in demanding it. You can ask, but you can’t demand.”

    I agree with this, but if this advice is geared towards monogamous minded individuals, this becomes more complicated and such simplistic advice will go over their heads. In essence it goes back to your #3 “Chasing men” No means No and making someone do something that they aren’t interested in will not work. If a man isn’t on the same page as you, and you aren’t open to any non-monogamous relationship structures, move on. I’m guessing when you use the word “Demand” you mean a woman trying to force compatibility, or trying to force a man into committing to her against his will. Forcing someone to be your partner is abusive. If someone doesn’t want to be with you that isn’t going to change because you decided to bully them, guilt them, or coerce them into a monogamous relationship status. Also wanting to be with someone who constantly lies or treats you like shit is masochistic and dysfunctional. Consent is someone asking and someone agreeing. However from the outside looking in on the behavior of some monogamous women they don’t place boundaries, they listen to what men say (instead of what they do), they make assumptions, they have poor social skills/human interaction skills, and/or are desperate/limited in their options. These types of women need to learn to learn when there is no compatibility that it is not going to work. No means no.

    “5. Demanding “we need to talk ” Most relationship issues are rather simple and can be communicated simply without needing a big, long talk:”

    I disagree with this. Most people don’t know how to communicate effectively. Also society teaches everyone that women are insane, overly emotional, incoherent, psychopaths, that have no idea what they want, and never say what they mean. So often times regardless of what a woman says what she wants, no one will listen to her or take her seriously. You shouldn’t be in any type of relationship with someone be it sexual, romantic, est if you cannot communicate clearly with one another. This is where RAPE, ABUSE, NEGLECT, est can NEEDLESSLY come into play. If your partner, fuck buddy, wife, or husband (whatever) behaves as if you speak another language and or gives ZERO shits about your needs, wants, expectations, or limitations, its time to move on. The issue isn’t with a person talking, the issue is when there is a disconnect in being willing as well as putting in effort to fix those problems. Constant talking happens in a relationship when a person is desperately trying to get the other party to acknowledge them and their concerns, because they want whatever it is they have with the other person to work or go back to that Euphoric stage. If you are spending hours explaining yourself to your other, then it is more than likely time to end whatever you got going on with said other.

    “6. Overplaying the sympathy card-You know what I’m talking about ladies. Sympathy is often the first ploy a woman turns to when she’s not getting her way, she wants something, or she’s been caught doing something she shouldn’t.”
    I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You should give an example. From what you’re describing, it sounds like you’re talking about emotionally manipulative/abusive women. For example a woman asks a man for $1000 he says no. She then goes on crying about her dead mom, how she lost everything in a house fire, and how she now has cancer. Man feels bad and gives her $1000. This is not normal behavior, its a personality disorder.

  7. Very insightful points. On a side note, you reminded me of my group chat with a few gay guy friends and their stories about men are also hilarious!

  8. @ lovergirl
    I don’t think we actually disagree about the paying thing. I don’t care if women want men to pay, I just don’t think they can expect men to pay AND insist that everything else is equal. You admitted that you want the man to to be “dominant” and have more power than you, even outside the bedroom, so in a circumstance like that, it’s totally fine and makes sense that he would pay.
    But a lot of women are playing both sides of this, and trying to get privileges without the commensurate increase in responsibility. Personally, I do not like or tolerate a man exercising power over me, except for sexually. I definitely like dominance in the bedroom, but that’s equally fun for both of us.
    But outside the bedroom, I only like relationships where both parties are there because they want to be, not because one is dominating or exercising control over the other. I fully understand that many men *want* to pay, but I don’t really care — they want to pay because they want the woman to owe them and they want to be able to control over her by way of paying for things. This doesn’t fly with me and I don’t like people (men or women) trying to backdoor me into reciprocal obligations by giving me gifts or paying for stuff. However, I understand that women and men who prefer a more traditional arrangement will want to do it this way and that’s totally fine. But bottom line is that money is power, and anyone you get financial benefits from, whether that’s an employer, your parents, or a boyfriend, has power over you. So one can be independent or one can accept money, but not both.
    On the selfie thing, it’s totally fine to send photos of yourself to a guy who asks for them. I’m talking more about posting daily selfies to social media, as if one was publishing a lifestyle magazine dedicated to marketing their own fabulousness. It’s just as bad when men do it though I don’t think they do this as often.
    On the communication issue, let me clarify. First, I am all for discussing the millions of interesting topics that one can have long deep conversations about: politics, economics, philosophy, media, socio-sexual topics, history, science, etc etc etc. And trust me I can talk about these kinds of intellectual things for hours and hours — I love that kind of conversation. I just don’t think that “relationship status” and emotions are one of the topics that needs much discussing.
    It is actually quite easy to convey emotions very simply with little or no words. Hell, babies clearly communicate when they are happy or upset and they can’t even talk.. I can even clearly communicate my pleasure or displeasure to my cat, and vice versa, and she doesn’t speak English. 🙂
    So I’m not at all promoting “putting on a happy face” — I don’t even think I’m capable of that! It’s pretty damn obvious when I’m not happy. 😉 I think people should make their expectations clear, state what is displeasing them, and then set forth what the consequences will be for the other person and let them decide what to do. I don’t think it requires a big hour-long conversation. In my experience, when someone wants a drawn-out “talk” about the “relationship”, it doesn’t really mean they want to express their emotions, which are probably already quite clear. It really means they want to try to use words to disguise their intentions, dress them up to sound better, influence the other person’s emotions, and then extract some sort of concession from the other person.
    If someone wants something from me or wants me to change my behavior I would much prefer they simply tell me what it is plainly and then let me decide what to do, rather than dressing it up in a bunch of manipulation that involves them buttering me up for 10 minutes, framing it so they seem sympathetic, and then giving me a big complicated explanation that takes forever to agree on the result. And that’s what I feel like most “talks” about relationship status are — power negotiations, not expressing emotions, which occurs easily without words at all.
    This is related to the “sympathy card” issue. On that point, you are totally right that it is effective, especially with naive, idealistic, and/or unexperienced men. But it’s effectiveness wears off with time and as a guy gets used to the sympathy ploy he will rapidly become immune to it or resentful. I can tell when my female friends are using the sympathy card with me, and even if I eventually give in to them, it makes them lose a ton of credibility with me and I don’t trust what they say thereafter because I know they’re willing to play me.
    Everyone deserves real sympathy in certain situations, but someone who is always the victim will soon find that no one believes her anymore and her tears will lose their power. So this should be reserved for the extreme and unusual circumstances where something was truly outside a woman’s control, and not overplayed like I find that it often is. I know hiding from accountability is very tempting, but if one can swallow the initial shame of owning up to a mistake, it will usually increase your standing in the eyes of others because people respect accountability.
    On the monogamy issue, we’re in agreement. A woman is totally free to end a relationship with a man who refuses to be monogamous if that’s what she wants. I just don’t think she should *expect* monogamy merely because she’s been sleeping with him regularly, absent a clear agreement on those terms. Of course, the same goes for men — just because she slept with you a few times doesn’t mean she’s promised to be your exclusive girlfriend, and men shouldn’t presume they’re entitled to that.

  9. @ Bulma
    I know that for me, there have been men in my life that I *absolutely* admire, adore, enjoy, like, love, and am attracted to….but that doesn’t mean I want to make a monogamous commitment to them. If I didn’t enjoy them, I wouldn’t spend time with them at all. But I just don’t think long term monogamy works, so if anything, I am actually showing my respect for a man if I refuse to enter into that kind of relationship in the first place, because it means I’m being relatively honest and upfront, and it means I’m sparing him a bunch of pain later on. To be honest, the ones that I’ve let think I would be monogamous with were ones I probably didn’t care about as much.
    So I think if a man is honest enough with you to let you know that he isn’t going to be monogamous, you should take it as a sign of respect and thoughtfulness that he cares enough to be honest with you. It would be MUCH easier for him to simply pretend to want monogamy while cheating on you. And there are plenty of men who DO want monogamy, but if one does not, you should take that as a personality trait specific to that man, not as a sign of disrespect towards you.
    It’s true that some men don’t really want to be monogamous but are willing to make a concession to a woman if they perceive her as high-value enough that it’s what they need to do to keep her. And it’s reasonable for you to feel sad if you’re not that woman to a particular guy, while someone else is. But realistically, it’s not ideal for anyone to get into a relationship where the other person is making concessions they don’t really want to make. Sooner or later their true temperament will surface. This is what happened to me when I conceded to a man I initially told I wasn’t interested in long-term monogamy with…I married him, and I kept it up for five years, but eventually my true temperament couldn’t be suppressed any longer and….that’s why we’re now divorced. It would have been better for both him and me if I’d stuck to my guns in the first place.

  10. My ex husband and I talked about politics, oh lord did we talk about politics, and the Bible. He has degrees in Political Science and Theology. I never want to talk about either subject again!! Lol We didn’t talk much about our relationship though and I really wish we would have communicated more. When we got divorced (after 13 years married/15 together) I felt like I really knew nothing about him as a person. It was like I’d been living with this complete stranger all those years. Granted, he didn’t WANT to talk about the relationship because he’d never answer questions. He would just say he was happy with our sex life when I pressed him and wouldn’t discuss it further. That I was unhappy with it didn’t seem to matter. I never got it out of him, until we were divorcing, that he wanted a dominatrix in bed and it took someone else to tell me that he’d been molested as a child. Those things would have been helpful to know and discuss in a “we need to talk” sort of manner.

    One of the things I loved about the most recent guy I had it bad for (we are no longer seeing each other) was that he loved to talk about everything and would be the one pressing ME to have discussions about emotional things. I think its very important. Sometimes it’s difficult but its important to know how the other person FEELS and not everything is obvious. Some people cover their feelings much better than others (and frequently men are able to do this). You have no idea what is boiling below the surface and then someone explodes. I’m not advocating emotional manipulation, just flat out saying how you feel and what is going on with you emotionally and discussing what to do about it.

    As far as monogamy, no one is entitled to it but everyone is entitled to ask for it if they want it. I would put that in a “we need to talk” category. People need to be on the same page when feelings of attachment start to arise. I am all for nonmonogamy sexually, but when I fall in love with someone I start to want more of an EMOTIONAL commitment, because without it I feel unsafe. I walked away from the last guy because he didn’t want to give me that and it was very painful but I needed it. I could have stayed and continued the way we were going but I wouldn’t have been happy and would have constantly been hurt by the things he was doing.

  11. @ Fluff

    I totally agree with what you wrote on demanding commitment. You put it better than me. That’s what I’m saying…if someone is not willingly, voluntarily, and happily giving their commitment, then the other person shouldn’t try to guilt, coerce, shame, bully, or berate them into it. First of all it makes the bully a jerk, and second, it isn’t effective over the long term.

    On communication, I wrote a clarification in my response to lovergirl. I’m not saying people should not communicate their needs/desires. They should. Clearly. What I object to is long, drawn-out, hours-long “talks” about emotions or the status of the relationship, and that’s precisely because I DON’T think it’s clear and simple communication, it’ s the opposite. It’s often a smokescreen and attempt at manipulation when someone needs a lengthy reframing of what is essentially an emotional issue: I don’t like this, this makes me unhappy, this is unacceptable. Just state it clearly and be done with it, and the other person gets to decide whether they want to modify their behavior to meet your request or they don’t. If one can’t just state it simply, it’s because one knows deep down that a direct request is going to get a “no”, so they’re trying to dress it up with verbal magic to trick the other person into saying “yes.” What you said is true…if a relationship is at a stage where it requires hours of verbal negotiation just to keep it from imploding, that relationship is already very bad.

    On the sympathy card issue, I’m not talking about anything as extreme as making up an entire story about cancer or one’s house burning down. I’m talking about more subtle use of sympathy. Playing up the parts of the story that make you look good and omitting the parts that make you look bad. Attributing behavior to socially-desirable motivations rather than one’s real motivations. Using tears. Stuff like that. I don’t think this occurs only with women with personality disorders, I think it’s pretty common. I’m the target of it quite a bit myself!! And given that women are physically smaller and weaker, and historically had much less social or economic power, it makes sense that using sympathy would be a natural inclination, as it’s one of the only tools available to the party with less power. Kids use appeals to sympathy quite a lot with their parents, for instance, but parents normally don’t use that ploy with their children.

    I don’t think my friends have personality disorders, I think they’re pretty typical. They don’t pull out the sympathy card til they feel caught or backed into a corner, but then it comes out big time. Which does work — in the short term. But not the long term. I work with a woman who uses tears to get her way all the time, and while I truly had sympathy for her the first time, after years of this, she just makes me roll my eyes when I see her coming. So my advice is not to rely on indulging in this short-term solution if one wants to maintain credibility over the long term.

  12. @ lovergirl

    I have read some of your blog, and the situation with your ex-husband and the desire for a dominatrix/childhood abuse stuff is tricky — and outside of the ordinary — because that’s an issue that was clearly enormously shame-based for him. That’s territory for a therapist and I won’t pretend to know how that should be dealt with. I’m talking about the much more common, every-day situation where one person is being passive-aggressive and doesn’t want to clearly express their real emotions because they know the other person will react badly. So they either hide it or want to “talk” in a long drawn-out emotional manipulation ploy to try to get what they want when a simple few sentences would suffice.

    For me, I don’t find it to often be the case that people are good at hiding their emotions. I think they’re very bad at it. And they use their words to cover it up. But it’s usually quite obvious when their emotions are saying X while their words are saying Y. NEVER believe the words, in those cases. I find words are just as often used to disguise or cover one’s true emotions as they are to express them. That’s why I like animals — they can’t lie about how they feel like people do.

    It’s true that people sometimes make mis-attributions about the reasons for a person’s emotions, and that’s why they should just be straight-forward about stating their displeasure without a lot of dressing it up and verbosity. TBH, and I know this goes majorly against the orthodoxy, but I find that most relationship problems can be resolved by a few sentences and by fucking. 😉 And if they can’t, the relationship probably isn’t salvageable.

    I’ve only been with one guy who wanted to discuss “relationship issues” even less than me, and his response if he thought I was talking too much was simply to say “okay, that’s about enough” and initiate sex. Which I found to be an extremely effective technique for sorting out issues. 🙂

  13. @KryptoKate
    I read your response to lovegirl on communication and once again I have to say I disagree. Yes you are correct that SOME people who are emotionally abusive and manipulative WILL gaslight and use long complicated emotional gymnastics to control their partner, but in reality this is a small percentage of people. Studies show that Americans are poor communicators, young people are extremely poor communicators, and older folks are loosing their communication skills because of technology. (links posted below) You believe that the average person is capable of communicating effectively/quickly and you believe that the average person is capable of listening and decoding that communication clearly/quickly.This is false. You also seem to believe that reading and decoding non-verbal cues accurately is a skill of the average person and it is not. Non-verbal language is not an inherently known form of human communication it is learned through acculturation not schooling. With the increase of technology, economic/social stressors, we suffer from continuous partial attention. Meaning that most people ARE NOT LISTENING or PAYING ATTENTION when interacting with others. So you’ve got this social interaction catastrophe where not only are people not capable of clearly conveying a message, they are incapable of listening/understanding messages. Top that with other social biases such as sexism (ex; women never say what they mean), classicism (ex:poor people are stupid/uneducated and not worth listening to), est and the ability to communicate effectively gets broken down even further. People will react to poor communication one of two ways, they will draw out communication in an attempt to have their message received, or they will reject it. So it isn’t unnatural for a poor communicator to take extended amounts of time and effort to convey a message and it isn’t unnatural for a poor communicator to reject receiving or giving a message. Neither of these actions are inherently toxic, abusive, or problematic, nor are they immediate indications of a person being an controlling piece of shit. I agree that if someone constantly finds themselves in these types of conversations CONSTANTLY with no progress, they need to learn how to convey their messages better (quickly more efficiently) and/or choose better partners.
    http://digitalcommons.conncoll.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1030&context=psychhp
    http://sophia.stkate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=msw_papers
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203863204574348493483201758

    “Attributing behavior to socially-desirable motivations rather than one’s real motivations. Using tears. Stuff like that. Kids use appeals to sympathy quite a lot with their parents, for instance, but parents normally don’t use that ploy with their children. ”

    Once again this isn’t normal behavior for an adult. Saying they have a personality disorder may be extreme, but its fair to say this isn’t the behavior of an emotionally mature person. I have met the people you’ve described and my social circle avoids such people like the plague. I have seen such people lose their jobs. They are often irresponsible, manipulative, dramatic, unstable people. They behave the way that they do because the people around them enable their inappropriate behavior. Behavior like this isn’t tolerated in the real world especially within the work place. Despite popular belief, adults crying is viewed negatively in a social context (unless of course a traumatic/unfortunate event has occurred). Crying women are viewed with more disdain and suspicion than crying men because it is assumed the tears are not genuine. Women who cry at work are also more likely to be demoted, fired, or suspended from their jobs because it is seen as unprofessional and weak. (links posted below). As I stated before, it may be unfair to immediately suggest that someone who behaves like this has a personality disorder, but some of these traits are consistent with historic personality disorder which is commonly diagnosed in women.
    http://psychcentral.com/disorders/histrionic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
    “I think they’re pretty typical. They don’t pull out the sympathy card til they feel caught or backed into a corner, but then it comes out big time.”
    Not accepting fault, not owning up to anti-social behaviors, throwing emotional tantrums because someone is holding you accountable for your actions is not normal behavior. That shit is not ok and often classic behaviors of abusive/manipulative people. I do not have friends like that male or female, this behavior is disturbing to me.

  14. Gotta come out to support Kryptokate. Great debut article – I’d agree 100%.

    “But bottom line is that money is power, and anyone you get financial benefits from, whether that’s an employer, your parents, or a boyfriend, has power over you. So one can be independent or one can accept money, but not both.”
    – This quote right here. *Incredibly* important for everyone to remember.

    As for the selfies thing… its more an issue of quantity vs quality. Yeah, if you post excessively, you’ll get a lot of betas and orbiters giving attention, but for a man like me, it’s a complete turnoff. I lose both respect and attraction.
    (I actually make it a point not to visit the facebook and instagram pages of the women I see.)

  15. @Kryptokate
    “It is actually quite easy to convey emotions very simply with little or no words.”

    I’m mostly with you, but I very much disagree on this one. Trying to convey all your emotions with no words is how terrible miscommunications happen. When all of the emotions are tacit, you really have no idea what the other person is feeling. What you think is his “I care about you” face could be his “I’m tolerating your ________ because the sex is good” face. Without at least a quick talk, you’d never know, especially because people tend to project their emotions onto the person they want to share them. This is how you get those situations where one person is in love with someone they think is in love back but that someone is really just enjoying what they think is a fling; it always blows up in the end with a lot more hurt feelings than would have occurred if they’d been open about the extent of their feelings for each other and what they wanted from the relationship.

    Most people try not to walk around with their emotional states on their faces; they try to hide their emotions. People try to act happy and smile so those around them will want to spend time with them. They spend so much time with that mask on that they don’t always know how to take it off…and they might not be aware enough of any of that to know they’re giving off signals they hadn’t intended to. It’s much easier to show your cats your real emotions than it is to display those real emotions when another human being is around, because there’s not going to be any backlash from the cats. It can be difficult to open up about your emotions to another human, but I think it’s necessary for a functional relationship.

  16. I see what you are saying, and yes sometimes sex is the cure all to high tensions, but if there is really an issue in a relationship I think it needs to be “worked out” and discussed, out on the table. Men may not LIKE that, in general (some of course are better about it) but glossing things over can be damaging. The issue really doesn’t go away and the partner who is bothered by it just keeps coming back to it until it is solved in their head and heart. Maybe the WAY women often go about bringing up issues or talking about them is unhealthy, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be discussed at ALL.

  17. Fluff, I don’t understand where you think we disagree. I said that playing the sympathy card is bad and people shouldn’t do it. You agree. But you want to categorize it as constituting a “personality disorder” or otherwise quibble about how often it occurs or when or from whom. It doesn’t really matter — I’m saying it shouldn’t happen. Apparently you don’t see people cry or play on sympathy often. Lucky you. I see it happen regularly, literally on almost a daily basis. I find it distasteful and my advice is that it should happen less often.

    I think you’re very idealistic and a bit unrealistic about “normal” human behavior versus “abusive” behavior or behavior that can be categorized as a personality disorder. IMO, “normal” humans engage in all kinds of bad, self-interested, manipulative behavior on a fairly common and regular basis. They also engage in compassionate, pro-social, kind behavior regularly and commonly. Almost all people do BOTH. Often without even being aware of it. I

    Everyone’s good and bad behavior is on a spectrum and I therefore find the labels of “abusive” or “personality disorder” to be basically useless. People are not A or B, black or white. Everyone has competing emotions, drives, and tendencies and sometimes act nice and sometimes like jerks, girded by a general temperament. The only reasons we “diagnose” personality disorders is so people can feel secure about having a neat little diagnosed label and so we can sort out when insurance will pay for treatment. And also so pharmaceutical companies and treatment providers can properly label the “disorder” that their products/services are designed to treat. But beyond that, the labels of “narcissistic personality disorder” or “borderline personality disorder” etc are a fiction that’s intended to describe a sliding scale of tendencies to exhibit certain personality traits — the labels are irrelevant to me.

    As for communication, you say Americans are allegedly poor communicators. OK, well considering we’ve all had the importance of communication shoved down our throats for the past 30 years, clearly that hasn’t helped. If someone can’t “decode” a simple statement like “I don’t like when you do that, it’s disrespectful, so don’t do it again”, then why would making the conversation way longer help anything?

    People here seem to think I am arguing that no one should verbalize their issues. I didn’t say that. I said it doesn’t take a big long talk. These kinds of conversations always go on about 50 times longer than necessary, in my opinion. If someone has a specific example where a relationship issue could not be clearly communicated in one or two sentences, I’d like to hear it.

  18. @ Silver Lining Girl

    I know that people sometimes misattribute non-verbal signs, And the situation you described is common enough — and frankly annoying for both parties. I’m not saying people shouldn’t clearly convey their emotions. I’M SAYING THEY SHOULD!! I think non-verbal communication is the simplest, quickest, easiest, and most effective way to convey emotions. You seeing my pissed off face, posture, and tone of voice will communicate the level of my anger much faster and more clearly than me saying “I’m mad at you.”

    BUT, if non-verbal communication isn’t working, then I fully support making it verbal, I just don’t think it requires a big long “talk.” State the problem and your desired solution, and state the consequences if you don’t get your desired solution. Doesn’t take more than two sentences and it isn’t necessary to drum up a whole big serious “talk” that needs to be announced, scheduled, and to go on for half an hour.

    For instance, in your example, this could be solved very simply, all the guy needs to say is: “I love having sex with you but I’m not interested in a relationship with you beyond sex.” Problem solved, and no long tortuous talk necessary.

    If the guy is not inclined to tell the truth because he doesn’t want the sex to end, then having a long conversation isn’t going to change that. He’s still going to lie.

    If one is the girl in your example, then it is also simple because one should never assume that someone else’s romantic feelings. NEVER assume that just because someone slept with you that it means they love you, want to be exclusive with you, etc. If someone loves you, they will say “I love you.” If they want a future you, they will refer to it and make plans and act as if you’re a permanent feature in their life. And if they’re not doing those things, then the assumption should be that they DON’T feel that way.

    The last two dudes who weren’t sure how I felt about them both asked me the same question when they wanted to find out if I was interested in more than sex, which was “so am I allowed to say you’re my girlfriend now?” In one instance I said “no, I’m not your girlfriend”, and in another I said “okay.” Each took two seconds.

    If someone is not sure how someone else feels about them romantically, then about 99% of the time what that means is that the other person does NOT have the feelings you want them to have.. And you’re not really confused or unclear, you’re just in denial and trying to rationalize that they’re interested when their actions show they’re not.

    I personally have never been confused when a guy was into me — it is always really damn clear. Seriously, it is SOOO obvious when a guy is really into a girl. The only time I see women claim to not know whether a guy likes her is when she knows deep down and is in denial. All her friends can always tell he’s playing her, so why can’t she? Denial, not lack of communication.

    So once again, I am just not convinced that emotional issues ever require more than a few sentences, and I haven’t seen an example yet where more than that is required. People want the long conversations because they want to obfuscate how they really feel, because they’re in denial about a reality they don’t want to accept, or they’re trying to hide the fact that they’re trying to elicit a concession from the other side.

    I can think of a bunch of times when I have used long, obfuscating conversations, and in every case it was because I was too chicken-shit to tell the person the straight-up truth. Most of the times, the simple truth would’ve been “I’m not attracted to you (and I never will be/anymore)”.

  19. @ Silver Lining

    P.S. Fully agree it’s easier to convey your emotions to an animal than a person, and that doing so with a person makes you potentially vulnerable. That’s why I love my cat….no lies, no mask, no judgment, just cuddles. 🙂 Still, I don’t think conveying emotions takes lengthy serious conversations. Things can be said simply. I’m not saying it’s easy, I’m saying it’s what should happen.

  20. @Kate

    I don’t think those conversations should be long either! Just that they should happen., and that they’re important. They’re especially vital for those of us who aren’t stellar at reading body language. A few seconds to a minute of real, honest communication is incredibly worthwhile. Making the conversation 20 minutes long just dilutes it, and people do that because they’re scared their want/need/whatever they’re trying to express will garner a negative reaction.

  21. Well, I’ve sure been confused as to whether a guy was into me. The last one, his actions would seem very into me then his words wouldn’t. Like he’d call me every night to talk on the phone for over an hour and want to see me all the time and take me out. He’d ask me questions about my finances and how much I thought I would need to get by comfortably. He’d say things like that I was his dream girl. Then he’d turn around and say he didn’t see a future with me. Then he’d act like he changed his mind again. Then he got me pregnant and flipped out. When I miscarried he was upset about that and said he’d had all these plans for us! Then he did it again…it was a roller coaster and he was obviously very torn. Even after I cut things off he would call me and ask me to come over and I’d say no. Then he said he was going to have to delete my phone number because he couldn’t stop himself from calling. Men aren’t always very clear about things.

  22. This is a very insite and I am for once glag that a woman posted something to women about their behavior. As a guy I do see on both sides serveral hypocritical antiquated behaviours, Th only one I have issue on is the communiocate point.. I actually agree with your point, however what I think is neglected is that most men and women do not actually communicate, they talk yes, but not actually communicate, they beat around the bush, they hint at things. I am very direct (a bill collector by trade) I can smell the bullshit a mile off and man watch the reactions and know exactly what’s happening. both men and women are also stuck trying to use “Communication” I find to enforce their ideas on the other or if they aren’t up to it, they try and inhibit the other ideas and communications. I’ve learned to handle but it is tiring. So I just wanted to thank but bring up that point.

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